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	<title>Comments on: Right wing patriotism as synecdoche</title>
	<atom:link href="http://borderlinecrimes.com/2009/07/07/right-wing-patriotism-as-synecdoche/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://borderlinecrimes.com/2009/07/07/right-wing-patriotism-as-synecdoche/</link>
	<description>on critique, boundaries, and activism</description>
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		<title>By: Itamar</title>
		<link>http://borderlinecrimes.com/2009/07/07/right-wing-patriotism-as-synecdoche/comment-page-1/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>Itamar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 02:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://borderlinecrimes.com/?p=79#comment-24</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t understand, what are you saying about white supremacists? That they&#039;re not self-absorbed and concerned with trying to purify the country, in part by suggesting that they are true to the way the nation was, i.e. more like them? Are you protecting white supremacists from being demonized? Other than that you&#039;re angry about something, I don&#039;t understand you&#039;re argument, unless you&#039;re a white supermacist. 
 
&quot;...a vision and image of an Anglo-Saxon collective body-- complete with its traditions and distinctive culture....There is no selfish motive here...quite the opposite. American white nationalism concerns itself with the collective body, the uberculture of those of European descent. Their focus is upward and outward - constrained by the exclusive concern for their race, yes - but certainly not characterized by morbid self-absorption. 
 
Uberculture? What? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#039;t understand, what are you saying about white supremacists? That they&#039;re not self-absorbed and concerned with trying to purify the country, in part by suggesting that they are true to the way the nation was, i.e. more like them? Are you protecting white supremacists from being demonized? Other than that you&#039;re angry about something, I don&#039;t understand you&#039;re argument, unless you&#039;re a white supermacist. </p>
<p>&quot;&#8230;a vision and image of an Anglo-Saxon collective body&#8211; complete with its traditions and distinctive culture&#8230;.There is no selfish motive here&#8230;quite the opposite. American white nationalism concerns itself with the collective body, the uberculture of those of European descent. Their focus is upward and outward &#8211; constrained by the exclusive concern for their race, yes &#8211; but certainly not characterized by morbid self-absorption. </p>
<p>Uberculture? What?</p>
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		<title>By: yaman</title>
		<link>http://borderlinecrimes.com/2009/07/07/right-wing-patriotism-as-synecdoche/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>yaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://borderlinecrimes.com/?p=79#comment-22</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not saying it&#039;s &quot;selfish&quot; in the sense that it is greedy. I&#039;m saying that it masquerades self-interest as love for the whole (because its definition of the whole excludes those who are not &#039;pure&#039; enough or have other perceived flaws). I am not talking about white nationalists even, because they don&#039;t pretend to represent the whole-- they see traitors everywhere. I&#039;m seriously talking about the right-wing of the Republican party who thinks that its qualifications for office are Love Of Country, which is a country where minorities, working class, poor children don&#039;t matter. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m not saying it&#039;s &quot;selfish&quot; in the sense that it is greedy. I&#039;m saying that it masquerades self-interest as love for the whole (because its definition of the whole excludes those who are not &#039;pure&#039; enough or have other perceived flaws). I am not talking about white nationalists even, because they don&#039;t pretend to represent the whole&#8211; they see traitors everywhere. I&#039;m seriously talking about the right-wing of the Republican party who thinks that its qualifications for office are Love Of Country, which is a country where minorities, working class, poor children don&#039;t matter.</p>
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		<title>By: nash2z</title>
		<link>http://borderlinecrimes.com/2009/07/07/right-wing-patriotism-as-synecdoche/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>nash2z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://borderlinecrimes.com/?p=79#comment-21</guid>
		<description>You disingenuously mischaracterize and confuse self-love with love of the whole, love of the the collective body. The two are diametrically opposed concepts. 
  
It is true, for example, that when American white nationalists speak of  &quot;loving the nation&quot; they are NOT referring to the American nation as it is currently constituted, but to a vision and image of an Anglo-Saxon collective body - complete with its traditions and distinctive culture. 
 
There is no selfish motive here...quite the opposite. American white nationalism concerns itself with the collective body, the uberculture of those of European descent. Their focus is upward and outward - constrained by the exclusive concern for their race, yes - but certainly not characterized by morbid self-absorption. 
 
Good try at some backhanded demonizing though. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You disingenuously mischaracterize and confuse self-love with love of the whole, love of the the collective body. The two are diametrically opposed concepts. </p>
<p>It is true, for example, that when American white nationalists speak of  &quot;loving the nation&quot; they are NOT referring to the American nation as it is currently constituted, but to a vision and image of an Anglo-Saxon collective body &#8211; complete with its traditions and distinctive culture. </p>
<p>There is no selfish motive here&#8230;quite the opposite. American white nationalism concerns itself with the collective body, the uberculture of those of European descent. Their focus is upward and outward &#8211; constrained by the exclusive concern for their race, yes &#8211; but certainly not characterized by morbid self-absorption. </p>
<p>Good try at some backhanded demonizing though.</p>
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		<title>By: Itamar</title>
		<link>http://borderlinecrimes.com/2009/07/07/right-wing-patriotism-as-synecdoche/comment-page-1/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>Itamar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://borderlinecrimes.com/?p=79#comment-14</guid>
		<description>Very interesting, but I read your article with a question in my head: 
 
&quot;To insist on the existence of a nation with regards to which one might be unpatriotic, an exclusive nation whose sanctity and purity is paramount to that of each person&#8217;s belonging to it, is to violate some of the most fundamental democratic principles regarding inclusion and equality&#8211;not to mention that it fails to recognize the dissenter as an actual person, rather than a mere enemy or threat.&quot; 
 
This is your position on nationalism in the United States, but there are nationalisms that we wouldn&#039;t be able to say that about (or would we). What about Palestinian nationalism? Irish nationalism? Perhaps Zionism in Eastern Europe, did it mean the same thing to its adherents as to its leaders? Is nationalism always governmental in nature, fomented by synechdochical subgroups who write themselves large in the names of millions?  
 
Here are some tidbits. One of my friends is a participant of the famous Abraham&#039;s Vision Program, which takes Israeli/Jewish and Palestinian students from the States to the Balkans and runs intensive group process dialogues. These are intensely political and aim at uncovering inequalities and and power dynamics. He says that one of the &quot;privileges&quot; that Jewish/Israeli people do not aware they enjoy is the privilege of being disaggregated, of different opinions, unenlisted and free. The Palestinian students speak of the need to stick together because of their invisibility. 
 
Another tidbit. Fanon talks glowingly about &quot;national consciousness,&quot; about the importance of uniting disparate subgroups to resist colonialism by recognizing their common oppression.  
 
I don&#039;t have answers, but maybe nationalism is really like a secular religion after all. I find it impossible to say what religion, as a category, is. It&#039;s easier for me to think about what religion comes to mean in certain places. Are we willing to openly indict Irish or Tamil or Palestinian nationalism, to point out the thousand and one differences that lead to the conclusion that nationalism is a logical fallacy? I would never do this, and I want to know why, other than the obvious reason that it&#039;s easier and more necessary to criticize the powerful (victorious?). Maybe nationalism is an &quot;instrument of identification,&quot; perhaps a moment in the history of a struggle that becomes a pitfall? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting, but I read your article with a question in my head: </p>
<p>&quot;To insist on the existence of a nation with regards to which one might be unpatriotic, an exclusive nation whose sanctity and purity is paramount to that of each person&rsquo;s belonging to it, is to violate some of the most fundamental democratic principles regarding inclusion and equality&ndash;not to mention that it fails to recognize the dissenter as an actual person, rather than a mere enemy or threat.&quot; </p>
<p>This is your position on nationalism in the United States, but there are nationalisms that we wouldn&#039;t be able to say that about (or would we). What about Palestinian nationalism? Irish nationalism? Perhaps Zionism in Eastern Europe, did it mean the same thing to its adherents as to its leaders? Is nationalism always governmental in nature, fomented by synechdochical subgroups who write themselves large in the names of millions?  </p>
<p>Here are some tidbits. One of my friends is a participant of the famous Abraham&#039;s Vision Program, which takes Israeli/Jewish and Palestinian students from the States to the Balkans and runs intensive group process dialogues. These are intensely political and aim at uncovering inequalities and and power dynamics. He says that one of the &quot;privileges&quot; that Jewish/Israeli people do not aware they enjoy is the privilege of being disaggregated, of different opinions, unenlisted and free. The Palestinian students speak of the need to stick together because of their invisibility. </p>
<p>Another tidbit. Fanon talks glowingly about &quot;national consciousness,&quot; about the importance of uniting disparate subgroups to resist colonialism by recognizing their common oppression.  </p>
<p>I don&#039;t have answers, but maybe nationalism is really like a secular religion after all. I find it impossible to say what religion, as a category, is. It&#039;s easier for me to think about what religion comes to mean in certain places. Are we willing to openly indict Irish or Tamil or Palestinian nationalism, to point out the thousand and one differences that lead to the conclusion that nationalism is a logical fallacy? I would never do this, and I want to know why, other than the obvious reason that it&#039;s easier and more necessary to criticize the powerful (victorious?). Maybe nationalism is an &quot;instrument of identification,&quot; perhaps a moment in the history of a struggle that becomes a pitfall?</p>
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		<title>By: Edo</title>
		<link>http://borderlinecrimes.com/2009/07/07/right-wing-patriotism-as-synecdoche/comment-page-1/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Edo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 20:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://borderlinecrimes.com/?p=79#comment-10</guid>
		<description>Interesting post, Yaman. What remains most striking to me are the different ways in which even many liberal and/or left-wing Zionists continually conflate &quot;patriotism&quot; and &quot;nationalism&quot;, thereby ostensibly playing the role of watch-dog, but without ever challenging the most oppressive root causes of state ediscrimination. 
 
Here is a great example: 
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1098187.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1098187.html&lt;/a&gt;   
 
On a slightly tangential side note, your post reminded me of this recent Daily Cal op-ed: 
 
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailycal.org/article/106014/honoring_american_values_and_ideas&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://www.dailycal.org/article/106014/honoring_a...&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post, Yaman. What remains most striking to me are the different ways in which even many liberal and/or left-wing Zionists continually conflate &quot;patriotism&quot; and &quot;nationalism&quot;, thereby ostensibly playing the role of watch-dog, but without ever challenging the most oppressive root causes of state ediscrimination. </p>
<p>Here is a great example:<br />
<a href="http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1098187.html" target="_blank">http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1098187.html</a>   </p>
<p>On a slightly tangential side note, your post reminded me of this recent Daily Cal op-ed: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.dailycal.org/article/106014/honoring_american_values_and_ideas" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.dailycal.org/article/106014/honoring_a.." rel="nofollow">http://www.dailycal.org/article/106014/honoring_a..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: tom</title>
		<link>http://borderlinecrimes.com/2009/07/07/right-wing-patriotism-as-synecdoche/comment-page-1/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://borderlinecrimes.com/?p=79#comment-9</guid>
		<description>BRILLIANT! that is so true and such a useful way of responding to people who question the loyalty of left-sing activists.  
 
When Dov Khenin, a Member of Knesset from Hadash/alJabhaa (the Israeli communist front) ran for mayor of Tel Aviv he was &quot;accused&quot; of not being a Zionist. One of his supporters anwered that he isn&#039;t a zionist - he&#039;s a patriot, meaning that he cares about all the different populations currently living in Israel/Palestine and not about privileging some over others. I find this reexamination of what caring about America or caring about Israel means very very useful - and your post hits the nail on the head.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BRILLIANT! that is so true and such a useful way of responding to people who question the loyalty of left-sing activists.  </p>
<p>When Dov Khenin, a Member of Knesset from Hadash/alJabhaa (the Israeli communist front) ran for mayor of Tel Aviv he was &quot;accused&quot; of not being a Zionist. One of his supporters anwered that he isn&#039;t a zionist &#8211; he&#039;s a patriot, meaning that he cares about all the different populations currently living in Israel/Palestine and not about privileging some over others. I find this reexamination of what caring about America or caring about Israel means very very useful &#8211; and your post hits the nail on the head.</p>
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		<title>By: Right wing patriotism as synecdoche / Borderline Crimes &#124; Right Views</title>
		<link>http://borderlinecrimes.com/2009/07/07/right-wing-patriotism-as-synecdoche/comment-page-1/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Right wing patriotism as synecdoche / Borderline Crimes &#124; Right Views</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 08:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Read the original here:  Right wing patriotism as synecdoche / Borderline Crimes [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Read the original here:  Right wing patriotism as synecdoche / Borderline Crimes [...]</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; Right wing patriotism as synecdoche/ Borderline Crimes</title>
		<link>http://borderlinecrimes.com/2009/07/07/right-wing-patriotism-as-synecdoche/comment-page-1/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Right wing patriotism as synecdoche/ Borderline Crimes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 06:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] 7th, 2009 by yaman &#124; Posted in Asides &#124;  Source: borderlinecrimes.com &quot;Patriotism in many right wing visions, especially nationalist ones, perceives the nation only [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 7th, 2009 by yaman | Posted in Asides |  Source: borderlinecrimes.com &quot;Patriotism in many right wing visions, especially nationalist ones, perceives the nation only [...]</p>
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